On this week’s (Sept. 6) episode of the Greatest Pop Stars of the 21st Century podcast, we take a look at a pair of “Mirror” men: all-time rap legend Lil Wayne (No. 21) and classic pop entertainer Bruno Mars (No. 20).

First, host Andrew Unterberger is joined by staff writer Kyle Denis and deputy director of R&B/hip-hop (and host of Billboard Unfiltered) Carl Lamarre to talk about the self-proclaimed Best Rapper Alive, Lil Wayne. We share memories from Wayne’s golden age — in particular of 2008, the official Year of Weezy — and break down both how he was able to turn all of popular music into Wayne’s World, and then how he was able to retreat from the spotlight without sacrificing his relevance or his legacy. We also go deep on the question that many have had upon seeing the rapper born Dwayne Carter’s name on our list: Is Lil Wayne definitely even a pop star in the first place?

Then, at around the 45:40 mark, Carl is replaced by Billboard’s R&B/Hip-Hop chart manager Trevor Anderson to pivot to all things Bruno Mars. We analyze how Bruno Mars was able to prove an immediate exception to so many top 40 rules of the 2010s: an old-school pop purveyor in an era of rap and EDM, a proven triple-threat performer in an era of bedroom pop stars, and a distant star personality in an era of chronically online oversharers. We also share our takes on how Bruno has somehow gone nearly a decade and a half as a preeminent pop hitmaker without ever once even hinting at a flop era — and how long he can keep his winning streak up from here.

Listen to our latest below, catch up on our past episodes here, and be sure to subscribe to Billboard‘s Greatest Pop Stars of the 21st Century series wherever you get your podcasts! (New episodes will be revealed every Friday, following the publishing of our two new Greatest Pop Star rankings for that week.)