AFSHEEN, a recording artist, songwriter, producer and DJ based in LA, has just released a new album called SMALL WORLD. One of the lead singles from the album was “No Muse,” which he wrote and sang together with HARU NEMURI, a Japanese singer/songwriter who has been well-received overseas and has recently concluded her successful North America tour. 

The song is a distinctive fusion of drum and bass with HARU NEMURI’s richly imaginative singing. It is dedicated to the Woman, Life, Freedom movement of AFSHEEN’s home country, Iran (readers will recall that Iranian human rights activist Narges Mohammadi won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2023).

In September 2022, a young woman named Mahsa Amini was taken away by police for not wearing a hijab. She was later found dead. This re-sparked the movement, and AFSHEEN sought to depict this tremendous struggle for the people whose freedoms are being taken from them.

In an interview with Billboard Japan, the two artists spoke about the creation of “No Muse” and discussed making connections through music and “making the world smaller.” (This interview was recorded in late September 2023.)

How did you two meet and come to work on “No Muse” together?

AFSHEEN: I met HARU through Justin, who is interpreting this interview. When he came to my studio the first time, he played me some of HARU’s videos. That was the first time that I saw her, and I just fell in love with her music.

Her music is so unique, and there was something about it that I’d never felt before. So I really wanted to work with her in some way. Then, a while later, I put out the song “God Is a Woman,” inspired by the Woman, Life, Freedom movement. Her team thought that maybe she could do a new version of that song. We talked with each other over Zoom, a lot like this interview, and we decided to make a whole new song from scratch. This is how it was connected to birth of the idea of creating “No Muse”.

HARU, what was your impression when you first encountered AFSHEEN’s work?

HARU NEMURI: A lot of AFSHEEN’s music was in genres that I’ve never worked with before, so at first I couldn’t really imagine what kind of music we could make together. But once we decided to make a new song from scratch, AFSHEEN sent over a demo, and it felt like an abstract landscape. Given the feel of the music, I came around to think that I’d be able to write something for it. What AFSHEEN sent over came from a totally different direction than what I’d been imagining, so I found it really interesting.

AFSHEEN and I have very different personalities and energy levels, but I felt this sense of unity in the world evoked by the track. It was like I realized that two people who are so different had this common ground. I’d been under the impression that there wasn’t anything AFSHEEN-like within me, but actually there was a lot. And, on the other side of that, I didn’t think that there was anything of me in AFSHEEN, but there was. My impressions changed because of the project.

AFSHEEN: That’s so beautiful. That’s what I’m trying to do with SMALL WORLD. It’s about taking a step outside of your comfort zone and having the courage to explore what you don’t know. A lot of people are scared to try something new. I feel a lot of respect for HARU and her artistic sensibilities, and it’s beautiful that she trusted me and tried to create something unique. The core of music comes from the heart, and that’s where real connections are made. Heart to heart and soul to soul. What’s important isn’t what it sounds like, but how it makes you feel.

In AFSHEEN’s part, there’s this one phrase that really stands out, “No muse but the music,” which is even used in the name of the song. I feel like that connects to the theme at the heart of the song. Could you talk a bit about the title, “No Muse,” and about this line?

AFSHEEN: When HARU heard the song I sent her, she just said “No muse.” It started there. When you’re writing songs, there are some things you just can’t explain. You just feel them. When she said that, I was like, “Let’s start with that.” Then she sent back her demo, which had the phrase “No muse,” and I felt like I had to make that the chorus.

For me, personally, “No muse” isn’t true, because, first and foremost, music is my muse. Also I have someone who is my muse, in a way. But I had to run the music through the filter of the women of Iran, who feel like they have no muse. So I sang “No muse” myself. But the music keeps me going. Most of the time, I don’t like to describe these things because I want the audience to take it in and make it their own. But I do love that line. I’d even like to make merchandise like a shirt that says “No muse but the music” on it. I think that would be wonderful.

So HARU came up with “no muse?” HARU, what did you mean with that line?

HARU NEMURI: I think that there are times in people’s lives when they’re suddenly saved by art. The landscape I imagined, with its android goddess, captures that moment. In that moment of salvation, it feels like a religious experience, like there is a goddess present. But the reality is that you’re not being saved by some sort of mystical force, but by the art before you. You were saved by the fact that someone existed and created that art.

I don’t have any problem with people calling someone their muse, or using muse in their personal relationships, but I want to free people from this sense of being saved by something mystic. When I wrote the lyrics, I tried to depict what it would be like to be standing there, alone, in this kind of landscape. The lyrics have a storytelling feel, with room for interpretation. That’s unusual for me, and I hope people also enjoy that part of the song.

We’ve talked about the song’s theme and message, as expressed through its lyrics, but now, using that as a launching point, I was hoping you could speak a little about something deeply tied to the song, Iran’s Woman, Life, Freedom movement.

HARU NEMURI: In Iran, a woman in her early 20s was arrested and questioned by the police for not adequately covering her hair with a hijab, and she died under suspicious circumstances. The Woman, Life, Freedom movement itself had existed in Iran before that, but this news sparked major protests. That’s when I found out about it, seeing it on the news.

I despise systems of controlling people, like nations or societal systems. I truly do. People should have religious freedom, and to worship whoever they want, but when religions or systems become political powers, what we’re talking about stops being simple belief. People die. It needs to stop.

AFSHEEN: I 100% agree. I 1,000% agree. It was one year ago, at this time of the year, when all of this was happening(*). I had gone to five different countries, working on SMALL WORLD, and then I started hearing about this woman who got killed for showing her hair. Then it started snowballing into a revolution, with more kids being killed. It was heartbreaking. When I was coming back to L.A., I knew that I had to do something musical about that. The world is a beautiful place, but it’s also a cruel place. There is so much unfairness. I knew that energy was going to do something, though I had no idea what.

I didn’t know that a year later I’d be here, talking with HARU. That’s what SMALL WORLD is about. It’s how we make the world smaller. HARU, you’re a Japanese artist, so you didn’t have to do or say anything about this, but you did. That means a world to me, and, I’m sure, to a lot of young women that will see this. I pray for true freedom for everybody. We should all have the freedom to do what we feel, as long as it doesn’t harm anyone. I think that’s what my work has to say about the Woman, Life, Freedom movement.

*As mentioned previously, this interview was conducted in September 2023, roughly one year after the death of Mahsa Amini.

AFSHEEN, in making SMALL WORLD, you collaborated with artists around the world. HARU NEMURI, you’ve also become internationally active, collaborating and touring with overseas artists. How do you two feel about venturing out from the countries you’re familiar with and working overseas?

HARU NEMURI: I think that, for any given country, there’s only a certain percentage of people who really need my music. Going to a lot of different places increases my likelihood of encountering that small percentage of people in any given country. I also don’t like staying in the same place for a long time. I want to travel to alot of different places.

But I feel like the situation in Japan is an unusual one. In any country, most musicians aren’t going to be in the superstar camp or in the “We just started out and we only have five fans” camp. But in Japan, the musicians in this middle area, the largest area, never leave Japan. There are a lot of musicians who have no particular reason to tour outside Japan, but who also have no particular reason not to tour outside Japan. I always wonder why they don’t go, especially when I look at overseas artists.

What about you, AFSHEEN?

AFSHEEN: I think it’s important for every artist to be able to open up and collaborate with other artists. It’s important to be able to go to other markets or cities or countries where you wouldn’t normally have an audience or fans. It will expose your music to more people, and make the world smaller. That’s the true message of SMALL WORLD, and the essence of who I am as a person. I love to see people from different backgrounds and countries and genres coming together. What makes music so exciting is the way it brings us together. I feel that it’s important to step out of what you know and expand your world.

Then, in closing, was there anything in this collaboration that inspired you and that you think will influence your future activities?

HARU NEMURI: In “No Muse,” I put storytelling and the depiction of the song’s landscape first and foremost, which is very unusual for me. I think that’s because usually I just don’t have the talent for that. That’s why I haven’t made any attempts to do it out in public. However, now, having tried it, I realized that I wasn’t able to do it because I didn’t have a clear visual picture myself. I discovered that I could write lyrics as long as I had my own clear picture. I’d like to refine my own sensibilities so that I can get a clear picture in mind before I start.

AFSHEEN: That’s beautiful. I think that’s the key point of collaborations. If we can walk away as better writers and better artists, I think the collaboration was a success. I would never have thought of doing a vocal duet, but the fact that HARU enjoyed “God Is A Woman” gave me power and encouraged me to sing the chorus. Thank you for liking my voice. If it weren’t for you, I might never have done what I did.

—This interview by imdkm first appeared on Billboard Japan